Yamaha Style Compare

Before we jump in I do have to say that we still don’t fully understand the various Yamaha styles types. PSR, vs. Tyros vs. Genos. Over on the http://www.psrtutorial.com site ,where we downloaded this style it says it’s a Genos style yet we found this style on a Tyros5 (Yes, a real keyboard).

So, we are not going to say anything other than it’s a Yamaha style. We recorded this Yamaha style on a Tyros5 and also the same Yamaha style on OAX after it was converted. There was no processing done on either file. What you hear is exactly as it sounded on each unit. The only thing we did was an attempt to get the volumes levels reasonably close to each other.

Comments on which you prefer?

36 thoughts on “Yamaha Style Compare

    • 05/15/2020 at 07:47
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      Thanks, Peter – sounds great! Also posted over in the FB group.

      Reply
    • 05/15/2020 at 09:51
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      Well played and excellent angles and quality video

      Reply
  • 05/07/2020 at 07:37
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    I use Extreme Sample Converter to convert my samples to the .sts format. Works great for me. I also use Sample Robot to sample sounds from my Abacus to use on my OAX 1. The sounds on this song were sampled from my Abacus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0wMbACzjH0

    Reply
  • 05/05/2020 at 08:41
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    HI Mark
    I will be quite honest in that unless you already have samples in the STS/Akai format I wouldn’t bother converting, (The format is close on 20yrs old) as you will be better off using VSTs which come in all price ranges.
    Unless Wersi have modified the sound engine (They now own it rather than licence it) it does not stream from disk but uses a highly efficient compression system. (Most sample based VSTs do use disk streaming so you can have much greater sample sizes)
    With OAS anything larger than 32MB was not really practical as while they could be loaded in, there was always a delay when switching voices.
    The Chicken Translator was used by many owners of OAS for conversion, but only up to about the 32MB size.
    Best to contact Wersi as they may have improved the sound engine since they bought it, (But as it was first shown in the V2. 00 update (Which for me completely ruined the system) maybe not) however as I said above, you will be better using VSTs. (If you have the full version of Kontakt VST it can load virtually any format out there that has been used in studios over the last 25yrs or so)
    Hope this helps.

    Reply
      • 04/27/2020 at 08:51
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        Hi all, hope everyone is well and staying safe.

        What is the general feeling on the imported Yamaha styles? – my personal view is that they are good, but no better and no worse than Wersi’s styles, just different.

        I have over 500 Yamaha styles loaded and flit back and forth between Yamaha and Wersi, and have used both on my recent YouTube recordings.

        Views?

        Also, anyone played with sound imports yet – I haven’t found any yet, but open to suggestions.

        Best
        Mark

        Reply
        • 04/27/2020 at 09:23
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          Hey Mark!

          Things are great here. We are keeping busy with a bunch of music projects. I would agree with you – No better or worse, and with a little “tweaking,” you can make either suit your tastes.

          We worked with some samples over in the Ketron world to bring some vintage organ sounds to that platform. After Wersi introduced the sampler feature, we took those same samples and brought them into our Sonic. They work great – The catch is there currently isn’t a way to export them from OAX. To be sure, I checked with Germany on that, and it doesn’t appear that an export feature will be coming anytime soon.

          In case you missed those samples, you can take a listen at:
          https://youtu.be/E4TZkl-CVeQ

          Reply
          • 04/27/2020 at 16:38
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            Hi Curt,

            Glad you are ok, and have time for some music projects. I am into week 5 working from home, and to be honest have no more time than normal, so still just a weekend player.

            Where are you getting the raw samples from to use in the Ketron, and are you doing any pre-processing on the Ketron (or anything else) before importing into OAX. I understand that you cannot export from OAX, but not sure we would need to do that, provided we have the correct raw format suitable for import into OAX.

            Sorry for the questions, but I fancy having a fiddle with some samples.

            Thanks
            Mark

        • 04/28/2020 at 06:44
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          Mark,

          We worked with a gentleman in the U.K. that did the sampling. He had access to a bunch of older instruments. The raw format files are not mine to give away. The original plan was to export them from OAX and offer them to folks looking to add some Hammond, Crumar and other vintage sounds to OAX — Until we ran into the no export issue – 🙁

          Reply
          • 05/01/2020 at 02:32
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            Hi Curt,

            Ok, understand. Do you have any experience with a piece of software called Translator 6/7 by Chicken Systems Inc, which appears to be able to take pretty much any sample format and save it as another – including Creamware Pulsar .sts, .p etc, and even mentions Wersi.

            I have a couple of samples that worked in OAS I acquired about 10 years ago that I may also have a play with, just to test the process.

            Thanks
            Mark

          • 05/01/2020 at 08:18
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            Mark, Now that does sound interesting. Never heard of it until you mentioned it. I just spent a little time on their site. We are doing way more with software than hardware these days. We might have to take an even closer look. Not sure what I would do with it but it does sound like fun to mess around with it and mix-n-match various sounds between Wersi, Native Instruments, and Ketron.

            Keep us posted if you take the plunge. I’d be very interested in what you learn.

          • 05/05/2020 at 04:19
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            Hi Curt,

            I can’t reply to the last one for some reason – sorry this is out of sequence.

            I have had some good discussions with the guys who write Translator, who have been extremely helpful. They have also agreed to translate a single sample for me from something else into .sts or .p format to prove their system works.

            They do however have a few questions which I cannot answer, and thought it may be something you or Bill may know.

            1. What is the size of sample that the Wersi can support, as that will determine the type and quality of source file that can be taken in. They said that if I gave them a 20Gb sample for them to convert to a .sts, it would probably do it, but unlikely to play on the Wersi as too large.

            2. Does the Wersi load samples into memory or stream from SSD

            3. Need source samples without complex controls.

            Final question, and once the above understood, can you point me at anywhere where I can get a suitable source sample (preferably free of charge) for them to test out the Translator software. I would of course share the resultant converted sample back with you to test on your Sonic too.

            I suspect that the sampled data itself is pretty static, and it is just topped and tailed for each format – I may have to write some sort of hex compare to look at that – if only I still had access to SAS a
            I don’t have a problem buying the software or samples, once I have proven they actually work!

            Thanks
            Mark

        • 05/05/2020 at 08:42
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          HI Mark
          I will be quite honest in that unless you already have samples in the STS/Akai format I wouldn’t bother converting, (The format is close on 20yrs old) as you will be better off using VSTs which come in all price ranges.
          Unless Wersi have modified the sound engine (They now own it rather than licence it) it does not stream from disk but uses a highly efficient compression system. (Most sample based VSTs do use disk streaming so you can have much greater sample sizes)
          With OAS anything larger than 32MB was not really practical as while they could be loaded in, there was always a delay when switching voices.
          The Chicken Translator was used by many owners of OAS for conversion, but only up to about the 32MB size.
          Best to contact Wersi as they may have improved the sound engine since they bought it, (But as it was first shown in the V2. 00 update (Which for me completely ruined the system) maybe not) however as I said above, you will be better using VSTs. (If you have the full version of Kontakt VST it can load virtually any format out there that has been used in studios over the last 25yrs or so)
          Hope this helps

          Bill

          Reply
          • 05/05/2020 at 15:18
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            Mark, Stand by. I’ll be able to get my hands on my Sonic on Wed. I’ll send you something that you can mess around with.

          • 05/05/2020 at 16:14
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            Hi Bill,

            Thanks for the advice on VST’s. I have seriously considered that, however I don’t want to load anything into the Wersi to destabilise it, as for quite some time now it has been rock solid 100% reliable. I would be happier to go down that route if Wersi pre-installed the Kontakt 6 player, and supported the config, such that all I would be doing was loading samples – which I may suggest to them, given that it is free anyway. I am not afraid technically of doing this, as myself and Curt have similar backgrounds, however I am time poor to fix any problems I may create.

            Therefore, for now I wanted to get some samples that can be converted to .sts/.p, as I appreciate that native .sts/.p samples appear to be like hens teeth, purely to have a mess around with loading into OAX 2.6, hence the ask about getting some suitable non .sts/.p format samples to convert to .sts/.p

            Curt – thanks for the offer, much appreciated. Let me know what format the source sample is, and I will get the guys at Chicken Systems to convert to .sts/.p and will share back.

            Many thanks both
            Mark

          • 05/06/2020 at 03:42
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            HI Mark
            It is the other way round, when you load a sample into OAS/OAX it gets converted into a form that it can understand, however if the sample is corrupt or a little off then it can crash the system and you will need to re-load your backup settings, (Always backup your settings before doing anything) with a worst case scenario being that you have to re-set to factory defaults before you can even load your backup settings.
            A VST on the other hand is nothing more than a more flexible version of a Midi hardware module, and just like you can unplug a hardware module if problems occur, you can just unload (Unplug) the annoying VST plug-in to get back to normal.
            To hear what can be done with VSTs just have a listen to Jaap’s YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYgORJ0Wlys5fnJWgwUEEC60GoK94L5oi if you haven’t already.
            Have fun

  • 07/24/2019 at 10:55
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    Having listened to both styles, I would agree that the Yamaha one sounds better, but I also think the oax one is perfectly acceptable to my ears. Let’s be honest, Yamaha are without doubt the industry leaders in developing arranger keyboards and I would expect their styles to be top notch particularly as their keyboards depend very much on the use of styles.

    As is often pointed out, the Wersi Sonic is primarily an organ and not an arranger keyboard and it is therefore perhaps unrealistic to expect Yamaha styles to sound as good after conversion. However for me, the style converter provides me with hundreds of new and perfectly acceptable styles to use on my Sonic, and I think for me, the purchase of the style converter is money well spent.

    Interestingly, there has been little mention of the Roland converter. I have very little knowledge of Roland styles and i wonder how the conversions will compare to the originals. Perhaps once I have fully explored the Yamaha converter, i may be tempted to purchase the Roland one.

    Reply
  • 07/23/2019 at 13:28
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    As it seems to have got lost in the system, here is the post I posted earlier today.

    Wersi has worked with EMC to create the style convertors for OAX and can be purchased from Music Store and activated on OAX instruments, (They are built into OAX from V2.50 onwards) however they are not compatible with OAS in any form.
    The original OAS (Before the OAA option) use the .sto style format (Pretty crude compared to modern systems) and could also convert old Pegasus styles into .sto format.
    With introduction of the OAA (On which the OAX style system is based) it added a new format of .stw for the styles (The OAA completely replaces the old OAS style system) due to the advanced features added compared to the old OAS system, it could also support styles in .sty and .prs format allowing native support of Tyros 2 styles.
    If you have the old OAS style system you will need to purchase the EMC style convertor direct from EMC http://www.emc-musicsoftware.com/Style-Works-XT/en (You only need to purchase the version for Wersi not the universal) to convert the styles into a format that OAS can recognise.
    If you have the OAA then you can get free Yamaha convertors from http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/ to convert Tyros 3 and later into Tyros 2 format, (Which is natively supported by the OAA) however the Tyros 2 format is more limited so don’t expect anything fancy when converting from later models.
    Hope this helps

    Reply
  • 07/23/2019 at 11:57
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    An interesting and revealing exercise Curt. Clearly the style conversion hasn’t worked particularly well. The converted OAX style is noticeably inferior to the original Yamaha style both in tonal quality and instrumentation. Sorry to say that it’s looking like a YAHBOO (Yet Another Horrendous Botchup On OAX)!

    Jeff

    Reply
    • 07/24/2019 at 15:53
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      I think, we can not compare an organ with a keyboard. If your instrument should sound like a Tyros, buy a Tyros. Have you ever compared another organ playing Tyros/Genos-styles with the OAX. In my opinion we have never had such a good overall sound than we have now and especially the drums has been improved very much. Much better than in OAS.

      Reply
  • 07/23/2019 at 09:23
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    Thanks Curt for the explanation,
    I found in the meantime a small program, sf2c.exe that is a Style Format 2 Converter and works fine under Windows 10, its Convert SFF2 style files to SFF1 style files. Bùùùùd, covert also the Tyros 5 styles to SFF1 styles. The rhythm unit sounds perfect but the rhythm accompaniment sounds good in some rhythms and bad in other rhythms.
    Of course I can’t compare, because I don’t have Tyros 5, but what you don’t know doesn’t bother you.

    Reply
  • 07/23/2019 at 07:19
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    Curt, I have a question, how and with what do you convert the styles? Is that also possible to e.g. OAS compatible styles?
    OAS does not recognize the styles and indicates “Style maybe corrupted!”

    Reply
    • 07/23/2019 at 08:56
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      Hi John, We used the new optional style converter package for OAX. They also offer a similar package for Roland styles.

      Here’s a small snippet from the “What’s New” in OAX 2.5:

      Conversion of styles from other manufacturers:
      With the OAX 2.5, you can purchase two modules by activation, with which you can convert styles of other manufacturers and then use them in the OAX system. The modules YAMAHA and ROLAND are available. Further modules are planned.

      New Timbres
      In the new version, 2.5 more than 1100 new drum tones have been integrated which are spread over 25 new drum sets. These new drum tones are used for the compatibility of the converted styles. Furthermore, there are some more tones that have been developed especially for the automatic accompaniment.*

      Reply
  • 07/23/2019 at 06:56
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    I think Bill is right,
    Yes, I also unfortunately have to say that it doesn’t sound so great on the OAX as it does on the Yamaha.

    Reply
    • 07/23/2019 at 09:04
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      I’ll agree with both of you that it clearly sounds different. Not sure that it has to sound the same? What’s nice is having the option to pick from thousands of styles and be able to use them on an OAX instrument. Some sound better than others and we find a much larger selection of contemporary type styles vs. marches, polka, etc that are not our taste.

      Reply
      • 07/24/2019 at 16:40
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        I agree with Curt here…The style convert was not made to try to make the Sonic sound like a Yamaha. It’s purpose is to expand the capabilities of the instrument.
        I am sure there are more exciting things coming down the line. I am anxiously awaiting the sample import and was told it will be coming.

        Reply
        • 07/26/2019 at 16:59
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          I agree Jerry, i have activated and just converted nearly 500 Yamaha styles and am absolutely delighted with all these new styles. I turn down the autobass, so that is irrelevant to me, and also have the accompaniments quite low, so it is really the drums and rhythms that interest me most.

          Just flicking through a couple of hundred allowed me to hear the quality and song application some will fit, so can’t wait to get some more time over the weekend to play with them.

          I remember paying over £400 for a digital drum machine about 20 years ago, and that only had about 100 patterns, so £133 for over 500, so far, is an absolute bargain!

          Reply
  • 07/22/2019 at 13:29
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    What on earth is going on with Wersi, it’s not even close; I hope others are significantly better or I suggest you ask for your money back. (Wersi just appears to be getting worse and worse with every update since the V2.00 update disaster)

    Reply

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