45 thoughts on “Wersi Sonic OAX 1000 Pergamon

  • 10/02/2017 at 16:06
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    Hi Mark
    Sorry there was no reply tag on your recent distortion post. What you must try, apart from what you have done in the mixing department, is to increase your master volume control knob on the organ console and then back off on the swell pedal. This will eliminate any distortion.
    Just another point, the distortion seems to worse when the organs are new until the amps and speakers have run in.In your case with the amount you play your system will be well broken in.
    When I first got my 600 I was very disappointed in the audio quality, in my opinion the on board audio system leaves a bit to be desired.
    Hopefully my 800 will arrive before the weekend or next Monday so I will let you know my results.

    Cheers

    Reply
    • 10/03/2017 at 15:25
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      Hi Ross,

      I did all of that originally, and put up with the internals until about April (ish), and then just went for the Adam’s.

      I found the overall volume quite low even with master volume turned right up when the input was set to not distort. I am running much higher input levels now with the Adam’s without distortion, which I proved by re-instating the internals the other day, which distorted immediately – oboe was awful!

      Cheers
      Mark

      Reply
      • 10/03/2017 at 15:55
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        Hi Mark how very disappointing for you, sounds really bad, have you tried with good quality headphones?
        How do you record your Youtube videos as they always sound great. Are you using audio out?
        Have you been back to your dealer to discuss as they could get in touch with the Music Store to discuss?
        Send me a reply by email to rosco.m@outlook.com and let me know the answers from the above as I may discuss be able to discuss this issue with the factory next time I am in contact with them.
        Anyway you are going to get a far better result with external speakers.

        Regards
        Ross

        Reply
        • 10/03/2017 at 17:20
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          Hi Ross,

          Headphones are fine, but I don’t like using headphones. The recordings I am doing for YouTube are done using the inbuilt Audio recorder, saved as .wav to a USB and sucked into Sony Vegas to mix with the video. There is no problem with the organ, just I think the quality of the inbuilt speakers and cabinet the speakers are in down by the pedals – they just distort and resonate. It is no worse than the previous Verona I had. I think I just like LOUD music. With the Verona I disconnected the internals and had a pair of passive Kef iQ7’s that I plugged in and they were great, but did not sound right with the Sonic.

          With the externals I now have no problem whatsoever – I wanted the internals to work as it would require less space – as it is I have taken probably another 3 feet to have speakers and stands each side, but as I am sure you have found with your HS8’s, the sound produced is so much more realistic too – I found that when I played using the internals and recorded, it was always a surprise how it sounded when I played it on something else. The externals give a much closer sound compared to playing on something else.

          But thanks for your kind offer. I see that the other guys are now downloading 1.5, but I won’t have a chance until the weekend. I hope your 800 arrives with that on, and also interested how it sounds straight out of the box.

          More than happy to share any screenshots or settings that may help when you get it.

          Overall, it’s still the best organ I have ever owned or played.

          Cheers
          Mark

          Reply
  • 10/02/2017 at 14:32
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    I have translated the German Programming Manual to English. Am waiting for conformation from Wersi to make it available. Screen shots are still in German although wording is in English.

    Reply
    • 10/03/2017 at 04:51
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      Came across this just by chance. On the Wersi.net site download page, clicking on the user and programming manuals brings up version 10 for OAX 1.5

      They are of course in German, but the pictures may give some clue to what has changed. Had a quick scan through the user manual and the only thing I noticed was a Kareoke section! I haven’t browsed the programming manual yet.

      Hopefully this means that 1.5 will be available very soon.

      Reply
      • 10/03/2017 at 04:55
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        The style editor looks very different!

        Reply
        • 10/03/2017 at 06:18
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          The style editor looks like it’s as before, but they have added a new Style Sequencer which is probably what you saw with a brief look.

          As mentioned they have added a Karaoke function (Why).

          Apart from the above 2 features (Which most users probably won’t use anyway) I can see no reason to upgrade from V1.45. (And to be honest V1.40)

          With all the new instruments and features being added to other manufactures products Wersi needs to pull its finger out, as quite frankly (Looking at the manuals) the last 2 updates have been totally naff.

          Look forward to reviews of V1.50 (When it is uploaded) from those that have an OAX instrument.

          Bill

          Reply
  • 10/02/2017 at 11:59
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    Hi Ross, Mark and Geoff,

    I’ve been following your discussion on Sonic distortion (good name for a band don’t you think) with great interest.

    The first thing to say is that I’ve never seen the input/output mixer level indicators on my Scala go into the red, so I assumed that they didn’t register distortion. However on pumping up the gain to level 10 on the Richter Scale and then putting the house back together again, I can confirm that these do indeed indicate signal overload. So well done to Wersi for replicating this feature on the Sonic.

    This is what I find works on an OAS instrument. The input mixer is the first stage in the audio chain. So whether we use the internal amplifier and speakers or external powered speakers, the setting of the input mixer to supply a good quality, non-distorted signal is critical. The accepted reference standard for best quality and zero distortion is 0 dB, so this is a good place to start. My approach would be to identify the input section with the weakest signal and set this to 0 dB, then adjust the other input sections to achieve a good balance in volume between them. This way none of the signals is likely to go too high and into overload.

    The output mixer is the final stage in the audio chain and sets the overall volume for the instrument. So for either the internal amplifier and speakers or external powered speakers, it’s a matter of setting this to what’s appropriate for the power of the amplifier and the normal playing volume required in the room. I would expect this value to be quite a bit less than 0 dB.

    How does relate to what you have set up on the Sonic guys?

    Jeff

    Reply
  • 10/02/2017 at 09:47
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    Hi All,
    Regards distortion on Sonic instruments. I have a Sonic 700 with the external Vocalis Speakers, this is the first Wersi I have owned so can only comment on this one. When I first heard the distortion I was not very impressed but after some experimenting on settings I now have no problem.

    As I understand it, the sliders / drawbars are volume controls as you would have on a TV or Radio. Turn them down and the volume go’s down, turn them up the volume go’s up. On the Mixers the sliders are not volume controls and do not control the volume they control the decibel level. Meaning you set the level of decibels allowed through. Look at the markings on the side at the top it says +6 then as you go down you have 0 then -1, -2 etc. When set to 0 no adjustment is made, when set to -6 that is the highest amount that is allowed to pass. Note it is not easy to understand the difference and I am not the best at explaining.

    The settings I have found to be best:-

    I/P Mixer Keyboards Sounds -10 Organ 0 Drums 0
    Acompliment All -10

    O/P Mixer All -10

    EQ All left at 0 mid point.

    These I have saved as Global settings, the vocalis speakers are set at half volume.
    The main volume set as needed.

    Now I am able to set any sound stops to full and no matter how high I turn the master volume I have no distortion although the windows tend to shake!

    Hope this is helpful,
    Derek…..

    Reply
  • 09/30/2017 at 18:08
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    OAX 145-02 now on wersi hochrhein web site

    Reply
    • 10/01/2017 at 06:41
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      Jim – We are awaiting OAX 1.50. Most folks are running 1.45 I suspect. I’ve had it installed since around April of this year. No clue what we will find in 1.50.x A few fixes, a few new features? With any luck it will correct more than it breaks!

      Reply
      • 10/03/2017 at 15:10
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        Hi All

        Download the Program Manual from the Wersi download site http://www.wersi.net/service.html then go to page 76 and click on the 3 download links; it should then download V1.50 software.
        NOTE: not having an OAX instrument I cannot confirm this, but the file sizes are different to V1.45 so looks like it is a newer version.

        Have Fun

        Bill

        Reply
        • 10/03/2017 at 16:14
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          Quick Update

          I can now confirm that clicking on the links in the new program manual will download V1.50. (At least all the downloads from the links so far have been V1.50)

          Have Fun

          Bill

          Reply
          • 10/03/2017 at 16:46
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            Very sneaky Bill! You know I saw those when I browsing the new manual but never thought to click on that link as the web site still shows the “old” version. At least per the comments. I’m downloading in another window as I type this.

            I’m tied up with IMMusic stuff the rest of tonight but will attempt an install in the morning on the Sonic and see if it is the “mystical” 1.50 version.

  • 09/30/2017 at 16:49
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    My understanding is all models distort if the master volume control, input – output mixing is not set up properly, but this is just a case of set up. Wallah no more distortion.
    I possibly have mine set up differently to the factory settings. I set up my swell pedal control so the complete volume of the rhythm follows the instrument volume.
    The factory setting only gives small changes to the rhythm volume with the swell pedal.

    Reply
  • 09/30/2017 at 16:49
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    Bill, It looks like the level indicators on the mixers are just registering the db level, and all in green. Perhaps Curt you could try pushing them to the limit and see if they change colour.

    Jeff

    Reply
  • 09/30/2017 at 10:08
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    Hi Guys,

    With regard to distortion, Ross and Geoff have the right idea.

    Digital audio processing systems are nowhere near as tolerant as analogue systems in handling signal overload. You can very quickly get into distortion. Basically if the signal level is too high, we run out of bits to represent the analogue signal digitally, so the representation is an approximation and distortion ensues. Conversely if the signal level is too low, we’re not able to use the full bit range to represent the signal which results in reduced quality. It would be useful if Wersi had provided a signal level indicator on the input and output mixers similar to that we have on the digital recorder. So top of the green band would mean the level is just right, into the amber band indicates distortion is imminent, and into the red band means distortion has occured. As it is, it’s all a case of trial and error, but one strategy I find useful to adopt gets us close to the optimum setting, and is as follows.

    Bear in mind that the expression pedal is NOT a volume control, the clue’s in the name. It’s not like the accelerator on a car where we need power in reserve for when we put the pedal to the metal. It’s a device for making relatively small adjustments to the overall volume in order to apply expression to the music being played. So, adjust the mixer volume levels (and the console volume control) so that with the expression pedal fully down this results in a volume level that corresponds to the loudest you want to play the music. If it’s rattling the windows and shaking the house, it’s far too loud. Now when we play, we would position the pedal around half way down for normal playing, push it further down for a small increase in volume and pull it further back for a small decrease in volume.

    This ought to ensure that signal overload doesn’t occur. Give it a try guys, it works well on OAS.

    Jeff

    Reply
    • 09/30/2017 at 14:03
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      I am confused, video 26 shows the input/output mixers with live indicators for sound level, therefore providing they do not go into the red the sound should be fine.

      Bill

      Reply
    • 09/30/2017 at 16:38
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      Thats very interesting Jeff, my OAX600LS I have recently sold had signal level indication on the input, output and Mic mixers?

      Reply
  • 09/30/2017 at 05:09
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    My 600 also suffers distortion. I’m using external amp and speakers. I found the only way to remove the distortion was by lowering the input mixer sliders to quite a low setting.

    Reply
  • 09/29/2017 at 16:44
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    Hi Mark and Ross,

    Just to clarify what I was getting at. OAS and OAX instruments have completely different internal amplifier electronics with different tonal characteristics. So an upgraded OAS instrument with its original amplifier is going to sound markedly different to that of an OAX instrument with its redesigned amplifier, even though they both receive the same signal from the OAX sound generators.

    The question of distortion is a different issue. Feeding a distorted signal into either amplifier will result in a distorted sound in both, it’s just going to be a different sounding distortion!

    Jeff

    Reply
    • 09/30/2017 at 16:33
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      Hi Jeff I understood exactly what you meant I knew the OAS to OAX upgrade does not include the amp upgrade.

      Reply
  • 09/29/2017 at 10:26
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    Hi Peter,

    According to Wersi Direct (blessings be upon them), the OAS to OAX upgrade installs a new sound card but retains the original instrument’s amplification system and speakers. So if this is correct, the substantive difference between an upgraded Louvre and a Pergamon will be that they are going to SOUND different. So depending on whether you like the new ‘contemporary’ sound of the OAX instruments (many OAX owners find this disappointing), this may or may not be a plus !

    Jeff

    Reply
    • 09/29/2017 at 15:46
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      Hi Jeff,

      As the owner of a new, not upgraded, Sonic 800 I can confirm that it is irrelevant regarding the internal amplification and the internal speakers as together they are still rubbish and distort at anything over mid volume. Only viable route is external non-Vocalis speakers.

      If I could have purchased an 800 with no speakers, knowing what I know now, I would have. I am running Adam A8X speakers and they are FAB!

      Cheers
      Mark

      Reply
      • 09/29/2017 at 15:56
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        Distortion:
        Hi Mark
        The distortion happens whether you have internal or external speakers! I run both.
        To overcome distortion turn up your master volume control knob to a higher level and back off on the swell pedal.
        If that does not fix it go to your mixer and reduce the input and or output volumes and the problem is solved.
        I hope this helps.

        Reply
        • 09/29/2017 at 17:52
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          Hi Ross,

          I can confirm that the Adam A8X’s have no distortion whatsoever, even at full tilt. I had the entire house shaking with max volume level ( just to try of course) and absolutely no issue with distortion or anything else.

          I am using the amps in the Adam’s, not the Sonic if that is any difference.

          I have them on spiked stands and vibromatting to isolate any vibrations, and can’t express how delighted I am with them.

          Cheers
          Mark

          Reply
          • 09/29/2017 at 18:51
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            Hi Mark

            You’re better off making sure the speakers become one with the stands, (Use Blu-Tack) rather than an isolating mat) as this will improve the clarity of the base. (If you can add ballast to the stands (The uprights are normally hollow) as well it will be even better) You only really need isolating mats if it’s on a cabinet or like that will amplify the vibrations.

            Bill

          • 10/01/2017 at 15:59
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            Hi Mark
            That’s very interesting I also run active monitors Yamaha HS8’s on professional spiked stands with matching sub-woofer and they rock. There is no doubt that the quality of sound is far, far superior to the Wersi speaker system, but I sill get distortion through all speakers. I have even disconnected the Wersi speakers and yep there is still distortion on the Yammy’s.
            My OAX800 should arrive this week, it runs the same internal speakers and amps as my previous OAX600 so it will be interesting to see if the issue is still there.
            Thanks for the update.

          • 10/01/2017 at 17:46
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            Hi Ross,

            Did a bit of playing around today, and we are all right to some degree, but I can’t explain some of the results.

            With the settings that I have, in terms of input/output settings, and internal speakers disconnected /muted in the case of the top ones, I cannot get the Adam’s to distort at any volume level. If I increase the input/output sliders quite a bit into the red, I can get them to distort at relatively low volume.

            However, if I set things back to my default Adam settings, disconnect the Adam’s and reconnect the internal speakers and unmute the top ones, I get distortion through the internal speakers. I have to reduce the sliders down considerably in order to not get distortion. So in theory, I thought that if I set the input/output sliders up to not get distortion I should be able to crank up the general volume and it shouldn’t distort – wrong!

            In order to not get distortion with the internal speakers, with the relevant input/output settings, the volume barely fills the room.

            Also, I don’t need a sub with the A8X’s.

            Interested in your experience when you get your 800, as out of the box the internal speakers are set up to distort, so would have thought the factory would have set this up correctly by default to not distort.

            Cheers
            Mark

          • 10/03/2017 at 15:20
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            Hi Bill,

            For some reason I can’t reply to your post below, however I have tried removing the vibromat, and using blu-tack, and I am now getting a resonance vibration, which appears to be coming from the door! – how strange is that. I can only assume it is travelling down the stand into the floor and across the floor to the door – door has 15 glass panels. I have put the matting back and order is restored.

            I have not filled them with sand etc, Mrs R wouldn’t appreciate sand in the house in case it leaked out, can’t complain though as I get away with most things for my various hobbies.

            Cheers
            Mark

  • 09/29/2017 at 02:17
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    What is the real difference between the upgraded Louvre to the Pergamon apart from the price of course.

    Reply
    • 09/29/2017 at 04:42
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      Larger screen, 3 x 76 note manual, Pitch and Modulation wheels in place of the Joystick and a wider cabinet to incorporate them. (There may be others but I think those are the main differences)

      Bill

      Reply
      • 09/29/2017 at 08:24
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        Many thanks Bill I am awaiting to receive delivery of the upgraded Louvre from Allens Music, Great Yarmouth UK now GS1000 and I must say I was very impressed.

        Reply
  • 09/28/2017 at 18:01
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    All OAX owners are suppose to be getting a English manual but I’m not holding my breath on that one.

    Jerry

    Reply
    • 09/29/2017 at 16:00
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      Hi Jerry
      The OAX English manual has been translated and re-written by Robert New of Wersi Direct UK so it is available or will be available soon. Maybe it will be included in the new update that will be released in a few days.

      Reply
      • 10/01/2017 at 17:05
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        I read somewhere that said Wersi was going to ship a hard copy of the English manual to all OAX owners. We will see if we get one here in the USA.

        Reply
      • 10/01/2017 at 17:27
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        Maybe it will come wrapped in a dust cover ….

        Reply
  • 09/28/2017 at 09:11
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    My wish is for a full up to date manual in English, and all the on screen German words translated to English.

    Reply
    • 09/29/2017 at 16:04
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      Hi Geoff refer to my reply to Jerry the English manual has been completed. Also the on screen German words will be translated in due coarse. There are not many words in German- Google German to English and it will translate them.

      Reply
  • 09/26/2017 at 15:30
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    Hi All,

    One Pergamon delivered to Allens Music Yarmouth UK with 1.50 software.
    All I noticed with my very quick inspection was the volume displayed on each stop selection.
    No need to touch once for volume level.

    Regards,
    Derek……

    Reply
    • 09/26/2017 at 16:14
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      Thanks Derek good info – DAMN! Where is 1.50 for the rest of us?

      Reply
      • 09/27/2017 at 15:56
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        Hi Everyone,
        I have just been talking to Germany and the update will be released in the next few days – NICE!

        Reply
        • 09/27/2017 at 16:01
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          🙂 🙂 🙂 — Only as I don’t know the “code” for a Thumbs Up.

          Couple of thoughts:
          Of course – What’s new?
          Second – What items that are on our “Bug List” are fixed?
          Third – My personal favorite – Do VST’s still work? If they do (of course they do!) – Do they work better?

          You can bet we will be all over as soon as we get our hands on it — 🙂

          Reply

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