14 thoughts on “Input / Output Mixers

  • 02/22/2017 at 14:24
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    Speakers arrived yesterday (23 hours from order) but waiting for stands, cables and isolator pads – which should arrive tomorrow.

    In the meantime, the Wersi guys in Germany have answered by email re outputs.

    On the 800, the outputs at the back, behind the panel are balanced and the ones by the pedals are unbalanced. I have ordered unbalanced cables, so let’s see how it goes when they arrive.

    I will take some pictures as requested Curt, and email onto you.

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    • 02/22/2017 at 14:55
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      Nice – That was quick!

      I’m going to guess the same is true on my 700 but will verify with Wersi once I have enough $$ in my piggy bank to purchase some external speakers. I’m sure you already know this but make sure you get cables with a “90” on the end you will connect on the Sonic side. That will allow for the back panel to close and not put to much pressure on the cables. I went with these – https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HK1NXUG/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

      I ordered 2 sets of 2. At this point I’m only using on the Input side. I’m coming out of a Focusrite interface that is USB attached to an external PC. From the Focusrite I’m running balanced inputs to the Sonic.

      I was just about to start to document my config and why I’ve done what I’ve done for others to review, comment and perhaps use as a starting point for their config. I should have something posted on our site in the next few days on the overall concept for my studio.

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      • 02/22/2017 at 16:46
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        Hi Curt,

        As I am trying unbalanced first, I have gone for straight jacks, as they will be on the floor by the pedals. If I go balanced, I will of course go for 90 degree plugs – hadn’t thought of that, as hadn’t looked at that yet. Back panel of 800 is very different to 700, in that the whole back flips back from the music rest, rather than just a flap like the 700 and my old Verona.

        I got a really good deal on the speakers as part of a bundle, which essentially took over £300 off the price, however they have now removed the bundle, so think it was an error, so i was in the right place at the right time.

        I will let you know what they are like once set up.

        Cheers
        Mark

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        • 02/24/2017 at 15:30
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          Hi Curt,

          I now have the stands and the cables too, although the power leads that came with the speakers had EU plugs, not UK – temporary workaround sorted with a Spanish 3 way extension lead with a UK plug.

          Initial impressions are wow!, however I can’t turn the internal speakers off. I have muted Output 2 (the tweeters), but if I mute Output 1 I kill the Adam’s too.

          Other than me taking the back off and physically unplugging the speaker connector, I can’t find a way of doing this.

          Any ideas? – I had assumed that plugging in the jacks would have muted the internal speakers.

          I will take some pictures in daylight and email them onto you. Speaker stands aren’t ideal, but 42″ is the right height and I wouldn’t have had the bundle price without them. They will do for now though, and may grow on me, so long as the sound is ok.

          Cheers
          Mark

          Reply
          • 02/24/2017 at 16:25
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            Hmm – I wondered a little about that. I would have been with you and “assumed that plugging in the jacks would have muted the internal speakers”.

            Are you using the front or rear output jacks? Since Wersi states (at least for the 700) that the connections are on the front allowing for “no cables” to been seen when used in a stage type setting with the organ facing the audience, perhaps the front jacks do mute vs. the rear?

            If that is true (and that would be a BIG if) it brings back the balanced / un-balanced discussion.

            Unless someone else has the answer you are exploring new territory here.

          • 02/24/2017 at 16:41
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            Hi Curt,

            I am using the unbalanced outputs down by the pedals, and only have unbalanced 1/4″ jack to male XLR cables, so can’t try the rear outputs as they are balanced outputs.

            I think in the short term I will separate the speaker connector at the back, and pose the question to the OAX team and see what they suggest.

            Ps. Like the picture of your set up, quite impressive!

            I know that you are going down the external VST route, but have you found any 3rd party standalone sounds that can just be imported into OAX. I am looking for a vocal “laa” type of sound.

            It’s been a long day, so will fiddle with the speakers again tomorrow.

            Cheers
            Mark

          • 02/24/2017 at 17:03
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            On your comment about the stands growing on you. Initially when I put together the stand that I’m using for the PC I hated it…. WAY to big and just down right ugly… But it is “growing on me”! 🙂

            Wait, now that I’m thinking about this … The Output 1 jacks on the rear already have connections. Is that what you are referring to regarding “the speaker connector” or are you talking about a different connection?

            Assuming you have the needed cables (maybe / maybe-not?) go directly from output 1 to the Adams and that would also disconnect the internal speakers.

            That is starting to make more sense to me now as that would allow you to use the internal mixer to set those levels.

            But I’m guessing that might bring us full circle back to having the correct cables again??

  • 02/20/2017 at 14:08
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    If you want big organ bass, go for the A7x with a sub-woofer, (At least a 12” active unless in a small room) or if you just want deep bass, then the A8x should be fine.

    Also, get yourself a calibration microphone, (If you have a AV Receiver then the one that comes with it should be OK for general use) and connect to your computer with RTA analyser software, then play some Pink Noise through the organ, and use it to get the best balance.

    Alternatively, you can get room correction hardware (Such as Direc Live) connected between the organ and speakers, to get the ideal response. (If you have an OAX instrument, then they are also available as a VST Effect Plug-n at a much-reduced price (The Plug-in can also be used with internal speakers)

    Hope this helps

    Bill

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  • 02/20/2017 at 07:24
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    Thanks Curt/Jeff for your responses.

    Yes, I think I have made my mind up on a pair of Adam A8X’s, as they are both a Nearfield and Midfield monitor, and have a better bass response than the A7X’s, but couldn’t fathom whether the outputs on the Sonic were balanced or unbalanced, and whilst I am only wanting 3m cables, hum probably isn’t going to be an issue, hence no natural requirement for the noise cancelling effect of balanced – although I agree Jeff, the guy that designed it deserves a medal – sounds like similar technology to that used in noise cancelling headphones. I have also checked with Adam, and they say that the XLR input on the speaker can take balanced or unbalanced, so I think I am going to give the unbalanced cables a try first.

    Thanks again for responses
    Regards
    Mark.

    Reply
    • 02/20/2017 at 07:40
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      Just ordered a pair of Adam A8X’s, 42″ stands, isolation pads and cables. Got a cracking deal!!

      I am hoping I won’t need a sub, but if I do I will deal with that later.

      I will let you know how I get on with them when they arrive, but assuming they arrive this week, it will be the weekend before I get a chance to have a play with them.

      Reply
      • 02/20/2017 at 07:59
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        VERY NICE! Good plan on trying without the sub first. I have to admit I’m a bit of a sub fan having used them on “Home Theater” configs over the years. Good chance you might be OK but there is nothing like rattling the windows every once in awhile with some massive bass sound from time to time… 🙂

        Eventually I’ll be doing the same thing as you. As much as I’ve tried, using the internals speakers – let’s just say, less than impressive. 🙁

        Once you are up and running – Share some pics with us so we can see how it all fits together.

        Reply
  • 02/20/2017 at 06:57
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    Hi Mark,

    Wersi instruments typically have unbalanced audio outputs. If you need to connect these to equipment with balanced inputs there are a couple of ways to do this depending on whether it’s a commercial or a domestic environment.

    In a commercial environment, such as stage or concert work, where we can have a large number of audio cables in close proximity to each other picking up noise from each other, we need to transmit the signal in balanced format. This is essentially a three wire cable comprising an earth wire, a signal wire and an inverse signal wire. The inverse signal is an ‘upside down’ version of the signal, or in technical parlance 180 degrees out of phase. If the sending device has unbalanced outputs and the receiving device has balanced inputs (as most commercial equipment does) then we need to generate the additional inverse signal at the sending end of the cable. There are circuits and units that can be purchased to do this.

    If you’re interested in how this all works, it’s quite ingenuous. The two signal wires are out of phase with each other but any noise that is picked up will be superimposed on both signals with the same amplitude and phase. At the receiving end of the cable the electronics subtracts the inverse signal from the signal. So if S is the signal and N is the noise, mathematically we have:-

    For the signal S- (-S) = S + S = 2S
    And for the noise N – N = 0

    So we double the signal and eliminate the noise. Whoever thought that one up deserves a medal!

    In a domestic environment we’re unlikely to meet anything like that degree of interference so the solution is much simpler. We use the same three wire cable but connect the inverse signal wire to the earth wire in the connector at the sending end of the cable. Essentially the signal is transmitted down the cable as an unbalanced signal. There are cables you can buy already wired with this configuration, or if you’re handy with a soldering iron you can make up your own.

    Hope this helps
    Jeff

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  • 02/19/2017 at 15:22
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    Hi Curt or anyone using external outputs from Sonic,

    Any idea as to whether the 1/4 output jacks by the pedals is balanced or unbalanced?

    Cheers
    Mark

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    • 02/20/2017 at 06:41
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      Good question and I’ve wondered the same thing. Nothing about that in the manual… 🙁 Does this mean you took the leap on a set of Adam’s? I’d be interested in the answer to the question you asked and also if you did get some externals – How do you like them?

      Reply

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